Discussionator -

Question

Do you want the government to run your healthcare?
– DigitalBoss, 2009-06-18 at 20:51:10 (31 comments)

	On 2009-06-18 at 20:51:43, DigitalBoss wrote... Hell no!
	On 2009-06-19 at 11:33:56, Thelevellers wrote... Hell yes!
	On 2009-06-19 at 12:42:24, DigitalBoss wrote... So you think the taxpayers should pay your doctor bills? "Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others." Ayn Rand
	On 2009-06-19 at 19:55:49, Thelevellers wrote... I was fine paying my taxes with them paying other peoples health care (until I got diabetes a hadn't seen a doctor in 5 or more years), and am most certainly ok with my healthcare being payed for by the other tax payers now. I'm in the UK, and though it ain't perfect I would MUCH MUCH rather our NHS than the mess you lot in the US call 'health care'.
	On 2009-06-19 at 20:05:28, BorgClown wrote... Government health care is a vicious knot of inefficiency and corruption, yet I prefer that to the vicious knot of efficiency and exploitation of insurance-funded health systems. Here's why unbridled capitalism doesn't and will never convince me: It's the social version of savagery. Survival based on sheer strength.
	On 2009-06-19 at 21:26:55, Thelevellers wrote... applauds
	On 2009-06-20 at 06:46:32, BorgClown wrote... Oh noes, unbridled applauses! You... you savage!
	On 2009-06-20 at 10:35:47, Thelevellers wrote... gets naked and dances round a bonfire Well, you asked for it...
	On 2009-06-22 at 11:46:13, Lee J Haywood wrote... It absolutely makes sense that we have universal healthcare for all our citizens. Regardless of whether or not they are employed and/or can pay for it, UK citizens are entitled to free treatment and not just for emergencies. We do have to pay a flat rate for prescriptions, however. Having been in a high-speed car crash recently, I'm a big fan of being treated without any concern as to whether or not I'm insured/entitled to treatment. Having a GP for minor health problems who you can make an appointment with at any time with no cost is also a wonderful thing. NHS dentists have pretty much disappeared now, but I find that private dentists are much better anyway at only a slightly higher cost. The NHS dentists cared less and provided a much worse service than the private ones do.
	On 2009-06-22 at 12:38:15, DigitalBoss wrote... Our government (the US) can't do anything right. They muck-up everything they touch. I dread the day that I have to sign-up for my gubmint healthcare. It is sad that the US is headed in this direction.
	On 2009-06-22 at 16:41:28, DigitalBoss wrote... I would rather see a few common-sense market reforms than a full-blown big-government single-payer system. Some of the market reforms I am thinking of are tort changes, insurance regulations including creditable coverage, and letting individuals have the same tax exemption that employers get on insurance costs.
	On 2009-06-22 at 21:29:37, Thelevellers wrote... I don't think anyone is suggesting a single player system, if you want you can have private health insurance in the UK, I would assume the US would do the same... I wouldn't agree with Lee about the NHS dentists myself, as I have only had good ones myself! Got lucky I guess, I have heard bad things...
	On 2009-06-23 at 03:15:50, Baslisks wrote... Its not communism its just the government laying a base that everyone needs. Social Darwinism doesn't work. It just makes it an incredibly fierce and brutal world.
	On 2009-06-23 at 14:24:35, DigitalBoss wrote... Everyone needs all kinds of things. I believe that people should be responsible for obtaining the things that they need on their own in the marketplace, not by the government (taxpayers) giving it to them.
	On 2009-06-23 at 15:54:25, DigitalBoss wrote... @Baslisks: Your utopia does not and will not exist. You can get something for nothing for only a short time.
	On 2009-06-23 at 16:46:20, Baslisks wrote... The current way healthcare is set up, if you are hurt without health insurance, you are in debt for a very long time. If you get hit by truck and its hit and run, no one catches the motherfucker, you are left in debt, you will probably not get out of debt because you are sitting there in a hospital bed selling your car to make ends meet and to try to survive. This is what happens to people without healthcare. They rot. They get bruised and the farmer throws them out. It would almost be better for them to die then to survive the accident that befalls them. at least they would die with some dignity and respect. You think my utopia doesn't exist? It is more a truth then your world. Look north to the Scandinavians. They have a system that works, happiest people in the world. I would pay half my salary for peace of mind. I would pay half my salary so even my possibly fucked up children could at least get their basic needs taken care of. Whose utopia doesn't exist? Yours.
	On 2009-06-23 at 19:51:51, DigitalBoss wrote... That is the problem with many people today, they would rather give up their freedom to be more secure. I would rather have my freedom. I would rather my tax be ZERO.
	On 2009-06-24 at 00:07:38, Baslisks wrote... Money is not freedom. Money is a resource. It is a tool. It is not the controlling factor. Now health is freedom. It is a quality that determines the very happiness of a people. If you are coughing up blood, you aren't very happy. With health you can build, you can write, you can do basically anything that you want to do. With money you can buy what others do. When you run out of money you are left with only what you bought.
	On 2009-06-25 at 20:29:43, Lee J Haywood wrote... I think it's a mistake to look at the government that you already have and the mistakes you perceive from the past and suggest that the idea of a tax reform or national health system wouldn't work on that basis. The ideas have their own merits, and there are governments that can make them work. It may well be that the US never has a government that can break away from their existing systems and failures, but you should not simply say that any (potentially) positive change should be avoided just because the government may mess it up, or is likely to.
	On 2009-06-26 at 01:20:47, Baslisks wrote... http://www.americanprogress.org/cartoons/2009/06/062309.html
	On 2009-06-26 at 12:10:28, DigitalBoss wrote... But OUR government will just FUCK IT UP, just like everything else that they do. It is more than likely that they will pass a government healthcare bill without ever reading it.
	On 2009-06-26 at 12:11:23, DigitalBoss wrote... @Baslisks: My money is my tool, not the government's. Let them get their tools somewhere else.
	On 2009-06-28 at 04:03:37, BorgClown wrote... Relevant "Debunking Canadian health care myths" post: http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_12523427
	On 2009-08-01 at 15:56:49, Scarletxstarlet wrote... Universal health care is something every first world country should have. If you've enough money for a private doctor, good for you, but the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer.
	On 2009-08-02 at 09:54:57, Lee J Haywood wrote... @Scarletxstarlet: Well said. Admittedly any salary you have is reduced by your health insurance deductions, which as I've said before is just another tax - but you know roughly how much you'll have left. The only issue is that in the UK we have self-similarity between facilities around the country, but it the US you've got to switch from disparate private companies to a consistent framework. Here's that article again. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327194.100-insight-why-dollars-alone-wont-fix-us-healthcare.html
	On 2009-08-05 at 09:32:58, Lee J Haywood wrote... This looks like a visit to the third world - health care for the uninsured. http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/2009/remote_medical_multimedia
	On 2009-08-05 at 21:16:02, Thelevellers wrote... Wow. that film is so crazy, I believe it's the same charity that was featured on Panorama a few months back, if I'm right it was originally set-up to help amazonian natives, but they realised that the US needed it as much, if not more... Says it all really, I think?!
	On 2009-08-20 at 09:23:57, Lee J Haywood wrote... This wouldn't happen in the UK. http://www.fmylife.com/health/4660097
	On 2009-08-20 at 09:47:15, Thelevellers wrote... @Lee J Haywood: Too true... Talking of F my life, have you seen My life is average? Even more addictive I think... :D
	On 2009-08-20 at 11:10:13, Lee J Haywood wrote... @Thelevellers: Yes, and Makes Me Think. http://makesmethink.com
	On 2009-08-24 at 16:54:34, Thelevellers wrote... YAY! That's another hour of my life dealt with... ;)