Discussionator -

Question

Should I completely ignore ethics and get an apprenticeship (possibly the only one I'll be offered this year) with BAE?
– Thelevellers, 2009-02-12 at 12:30:12 (13 comments)

	On 2009-02-12 at 12:33:13, Thelevellers wrote... OK, so I've only got to the test day so far, but I'm gonna have to travel a long way to get to it, and I don't drive. I have not applied for some companies (such as missile manufacturers) because I don't think I could make something so obviously dealing death, and that is highly likely to be sold to various unsavoury characters... But is fighter jet construction any better?! :s
	On 2009-02-12 at 14:45:59, Lee J Haywood wrote... You could argue that the military is as much about defence and the threat of death as it is about death itself. It's not guaranteed that weapons will be used to actually kill, e.g. most nuclear weapons aren't actually fired. Clearly it depends on the choices open to you - if you cannot get a job elsewhere, or one as good, then it's not so bad to fill a position that someone else will end up in anyway. Some of my company's customers (or former customers, at least) are linked to animal slaughter - I avoid having anything to do with them, but have been lucky that I never had to outright refuse to do my job.
	On 2009-02-12 at 19:42:26, Thelevellers wrote... Yeah, I guess that's kinda my thinking. Also, they will be paying me, and paying FOR me to learn for three years or so, so I'm kinda working against them ;) I just don't wanna end up like I guy my parents know who works for a big defense company by day and is something of a hippy by night!
	On 2009-02-13 at 16:40:32, Baslisks wrote... @Thelevellers: experience is experience and knowing the inner workings of some pretty weapons is a good thing. Think of it. Where else has technology always been the main focus? They care not for aesthetics they care not for form they only care about function and where those other factors can meet it. Weapons design and building is a great foray into the world of function. I haven't shot a gun but I know how to take one apart.
	On 2009-02-13 at 17:22:53, Thelevellers wrote... Oh I wholeheartedly agree with that side, it's the reason I applied at all, it's the fact that by supporting the design and/or construction of these things I am potentially supporting regimes the likes of that in Zimbabwe...
	On 2009-02-13 at 18:16:02, Baslisks wrote... that is a twisty little path. You could be like a jewish worker in a nazi concentration camp and drill out tank treads so they break sooner?
	On 2009-02-14 at 00:04:06, Thelevellers wrote... lmao! Sounds good to me... :) I've been surprised by the number of my friends (that I would think were fairly moral people) who have said 'just go for it, sod the morals'. Makes me think I'm being over cautious, but I think maybe they're just being suuportive. One of them did say they have another friend doing their year in industry with BAE and they all call him the baby killer, lol!
	On 2009-02-14 at 04:50:29, BorgClown wrote... Morality is not an absolute, but helping to build weapons while dissing war and murder would be hypocritical. It's best to accept that the real world is not black and white, and for getting a big long-term benefit you must sacrifice a part of your convictions short-term. So long story short, if you have a moral dilemma, do it today if you sincerely think doing it will give you the skills to increase your potential for good tomorrow.
	On 2009-02-14 at 21:38:06, Thelevellers wrote... Well said Mr. Clown! That is the conclusion I've come to really :-) I like getting confirmation of my thoughts on things like this, though I tend to ignore conflicting views on this kinda thing ;-)
	On 2009-02-15 at 00:29:59, BorgClown wrote... So we are both hopeless idealists =P
	On 2009-02-15 at 00:35:58, Thelevellers wrote... Lol, it's the best kind of idealist to be =P
	On 2009-02-15 at 00:43:19, BorgClown wrote... Somehow idealism survives in this world, it's not as useless as people think. It can make the world a little bit better.
	On 2009-02-15 at 14:59:56, Thelevellers wrote... It can, at the very least, make one feel better! :)